CELINA EDMONDS, PRESENTER: Shadow Treasurer Chris Bowen joins me now in the studio. Chris Bowen, thank you very much for your time. Happy New Year to you.

CHRIS BOWEN, SHADOW TREASURER: Same to you, good morning.

EDMONDS: Back do work today.

BOWEN: Yes, for all of us.

EDMONDS: Let's clarify something. Does your policy still remain the same?

BOWEN: Absolutely. This is the policy we took to the last election, the policy we will take to the next election. And this morning's documents confirm everything we've said about this policy, that it will put downward pressure on prices but not smash the housing market.

The Prime Minister and the Treasurer have some very serious explaining to do. For two years they have sat on this Treasury analysis, theyve suppressed it, refused to release it. It contradicts everything they said. They have said it would smash the housing market and they also said it would smash investment. The Prime Minister personally used examples about impacts on businesses and partnerships and this Treasury document actually confirms that was just simply untrue. They engaged in a scare campaign and a smear campaign against our policies which they knew, they had Treasury analysis, showing it was just not true. Scott Morrison today should be explaining himself.

EDMONDS: The Government has come out this morning and says they have other advice that further points to this being an unwise policy, and an unwise move. I imagine you would like to see it.

BOWEN: Absolutely. The advice that exists is this Treasury advice, which they have suppressed for two years. They went through an election campaign without releasing this advice. Scott Morrison is very quick to release Treasury analysis, sometimes which has shown not to be Treasury analysis after closer consideration, of Labor's policy. He is obsessed with it. But only when it suits him. He knew this advice existed. He had it on his desk. He continued the scare campaign, which was fundamentally dishonest. He now needs to explain himself.

This goes to his character and Malcolm Turnbull's character, and senior Cabinet Ministers said it would smash the economy. Peter Dutton said it would smash the Stock Exchange and the share prices. All these things were lies. And they knew them to be lies at the time that they were making the claims. Labor's taken the political risks. We've engaged in policy development, done the hard work, we've taken controversial policies. The Government has engaged in a scare campaign based on all of them. The fact they engaged in this scare campaign dishonestly also shows that whatever they say about other Labor policies, is very legitimately open to question.

EDMONDS: This was two years ago. So the Government is going to come and say now, Well, this is two-year-old advice, weve gathered more information, more intelligence on this. They are going to continue. They don't seem to be making any concessions this morning. We have heard from Kelly O'Dwyer and Simon Birmingham. What do you say to people who are going, But that was two years ago. We have moved on. We need more clarification.

BOWEN: Well it was the advice based on Labor's policy which remains the same today. The Treasury are smart people. They don't make advice base on property market at one particular snapshot in time. They take the approach correctly that this is a long-term reform. This is a generational reform which has impacts for young people trying to get into the housing market today and into the future. We have the most generous property tax concessions in the world, we currently, as a nation, provide more taxpayer support for somebody buying their fifth, sixth or seventh property than somebody buying their first.

Labor says enough is enough. That has got to stop. The Government says it's fine, we are going to let it continue. Our policy is good for housing affordability, very good for the Budget and good for financial stability given the very high levels of household debt which are in part fuelled by negative gearing. Our policy ticks those boxes.

The Government has nothing in response other than a scare campaign. Its time for them to adopt our policy. But as you say, there is no signs of them doing that. We will take to it the next election, we will fight that election, and we will implementation it in Government if we win.

EDMONDS: You have pointed out for first home buyers how difficult it is. In terms of the impact of house prices since 2016, they have increased dramatically in some markets. And, of course, there has been a softening, but only again in some markets that we have seen lately. This impact if this was to become a policy, I imagine there is many people thinking, well, if it is only a small amount that this is going to impact on house price, perhaps this will help some of our young people.

BOWEN: Absolutely. Right around the country you see parents and grandparents saying it is all very well that my house price continues to grow exponentially, but how do my children or grandchildren get into the housing market? Something has got to give here. It is not sustainable. We can no longer house our own children and they are right. They say Government should be coming up with policies to deal with this. And ours does.

Negative gearing is just part of our policy offering on housing affordability. We have a suite of measures weve announced. Bill Shorten, Doug Cameron and I in three tranches, housing affordability policies. Because we recognise that this is an economic and societal challenge.

We should be continuing to provide young people, in particular - not exclusively young people - but young people in particular that opportunity to actually get into the housing market. They are turning up at auctions right around the country, even today, and as you say, some markets are softened. But even today young people are turning up at auctions and bidding against investors and being outbid by investors who have the negative gearing tax concession in their pocket. They don't have that tax concession in their pocket so they are disadvantaged at those auctions.

We really do need to tackle this housing affordability crisis but also to embrace Budget reform and Budget repair, which our policy does and financial stability. Also which our policy does.

EDMONDS: I want to emphasise that this has been a 2-year effort by the ABC to get this information under Freedom of Information.

BOWEN: Full credit.

EDMONDS: You should be bringing streamers for us!

BOWEN: Full credit to the team who have been working on this for two years.

EDMONDS: Before you go, I want to ask you about another issue. The front page of The Australian today the story there with regards to universities. We are seeing yet another, I have to say yet another story about tertiary education not preparing people for entering the workforce. This has been an extensive, largest ever, survey of Australian employers and employees. It points to tertiary education failing in key business areas. As the Shadow Treasurer, surely that rings alarm bells?

BOWEN: Well of course. We have been talking about this for some time, us and others, pointing out that we need to be training for the jobs of the future, not for the jobs which may not exist in five or ten years time. Not just in universities but in TAFE most particularly as well as weve pointed out. ACCI and other employment groups would agree with that. Vocational education and training needs to be at the forefront of the discussion as well. But you don't solve the problem by cutting $2. 2 billion from universities, which the Government announced just before Christmas in their mid-year economic update. Money is not the answer to everything when it comes to universities. Of course, business, unions, governments and universities and TAFE and the vocational education sector need to be working together to ensure we're training for the jobs of the future, and increasing peoples employability, as they leave tertiary education. But cutting $2.2 billion is a very bad place to be starting that conversation.

EDMONDS: We can't have graduates coming out and being told that their degrees are a waste of time.

BOWEN: Of course. That isn't of benefit to anybody. University typically isn't just about employability. We need a strong university sector, teaching a whole range of subjects, which go to the importance of higher education in our society. That's always what universities have been about. It is also about employability. Of course it is. It isn't exclusively about employability, but it is an important part of it. I want to emphasise it isn't just about universities. We have TAFE and reinvestment in TAFE, putting TAFE at the centre of vocational education and training at the forefront of our higher education agenda. As well as properly funding universities. Because if you just concentrate on one sector, you are going to miss big parts of the answer to this very important problem.

The economy is changing faster than it ever has. Technology is changing. Jobs are being destroyed and created every day. We need to ensure that we're giving our young people again, in particular, but also lifelong learning for people affected by changes in the workforce, the maximum opportunity to compete against people around the world. We no longer are competing against each other, but against people from around the world. Unless we're engaging in that lifelong learning and it educating for the jobs of the future, and adaptability importantly, the ability to change because we can't all predict how the labour market is going to change over the next 10 years. You and I cant predict which jobs are going to exist or not exist in 10 years' time. We can try but we may get it wrong. We have to be teaching adaptability and the ability to cope with that change as well.

EDMONDS: Shadow Treasurer, we have to leave it there. Chris Bowen thank you very much for joining me in the studio.

BOWEN: Great pleasure.